There is an age old controversy in Christianity waging over the issue of beverage alcohol. Is it proper or allowable for Christians to drink socially, as long as they do not get drunk? Does Scripture say anything against the drinking of beverage alcohol? These are questions that are being asked by many Christians, and even Baptists Christians.
For many years Baptists have been known to be “Tea-totalers”. Personally, I do not think that to be a bad thing. In recent months and years the idea of Baptists being temperant concerning beverage alcohol has come into question. It has been a source of controversy at the Southern Baptist Convention’s annual meeting and recently at the Missouri Baptist Convention’s annual meeting.
To my point of view it has become a question due to the fact that many younger pastors are saying that the Bible says nothing against a social drink of beverage alcohol. There are several of us, young and old, who disagree with that assessment. There is example after example in Scripture of the danger or the drink. In articles I have written at Fire and Hammer I have written of two examples. The first is of Noah who having come off the ark, grows a vineyard, drinks too heavily of its fruit, and becomes drunkened by it, and brings a curse on a member of the family. The second is of Lot, after being delivered with his two daughters from the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, is given wine to make him drunk, by his daughers for the purpose of incestual impregnation; another evidence of moral decay, and Lot goes along by allowing himself to become drunk.
There are also verses which argue against the drink of beverage alcohol. For example Proverbs 20:1; 23:29-35; and 31:1-6. Every time these verses are presented the one’s who are in favor of “License” or “Freedom in Christ” as they want to call it, will run circles around these and do everything they can to explain them away. There are also some New Testament Scriptures concerning a “sound mind” which needs to be taken into consideration concerning beverage alcohol (Ephesians 5:18; 2 Timothy 1:7; 1 Peter 1:13). At what point does one become drunk? At what point does the alcohol begin to take your mind? Does anyone know the answer to these questions? If the answer to these questions cannot be known, then, in my thinking that is another reason to remain abstinent from beverage alcohol.
I will agree with my brother in Christ David Tolliver who is the Interim Executive Director of the Missouri Baptist Convention; that there is no place in the Bible that says, “Thou shalt not drink beverage alcohol”, however, there are many which speak of its dangers. It is my conviction when the Bible doesn’t say “Thou shalt not…”, but our tradition says “Let’s not…”, then, I will stand with the tradition rather than try to allow loose living and morality. That is where this debate over the alcohol issue will lead us if we lower our standards.
Do we want to lower our standards to allow a few to come in? I choose to remain faithful to the Bible and the tradition which does not allow loose living. This is not a matter of salvation, but of sanctification and holiness.
edited the links given above on Noah and Lot because of the deletion of THE WATCHMAN’S TRUMPET. 01/09/10
T.A.
Joey McCreight
/ October 1, 2008I am not a southern baptist, but I will admit I appreciate the article and completely agree!
Alot of people want to get as close to sin as possible b/c of the carnal desires within.
God Bless
Tim A.
/ October 1, 2008Joey,
Thank you for your comment. More Christians need to realize the dangers of beverage alcohol, and stop using it and promoting its vices.
Just this morning I heard of Church sponsored softball games where a keg of beer was the choice drink.
Thanks again.
T.A.
Heartburn Home Remedy
/ April 15, 2009Hey, nice tips. I’ll buy a glass of beer to the person from that chat who told me to go to your blog
Tim A.
/ April 16, 2009Heartburn,
“Whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.”
Can you do that 8)
T.A.
Random T.
/ April 22, 2009Not that I’m totally impressed, but this is more than I expected for when I found a link on Delicious telling that the info here is awesome. Thanks.
Myke Ashley-Cooper
/ December 24, 2009The scandal (?) of Jesus turning water into wine appears to go unchallenged as does the wine at the last supper!
I choose not to drink alcohol based on my preferences but not on biblical chapter and verse! I merely prefer fruit juices and soda water but the occasional margarita is a pleasure indeed!
Mike Welborn
/ January 8, 2010There are two prohibitions against drinking. One is when you enter the Tent of Meeting (Lev 10:9) which could probably be translated to the church today. The second was if you take the vow of a Nazirite (Num 6:3) which also prohibits any consumption of any part of the grape plant.
I don’t know that I would promote the use of alcohol, but I can not find a Scriptual basis for a general prohibition against.
Tim A.
/ January 9, 2010Mike,
Thanks for your comment. Even if we take the two verses you give; wouldn’t that give us reason enough to say, “It is not right for a Christian to drink beverage alcohol”? The “Tent of meeting” where the ark of the covenant was represents the presence of God; We have the presence of God with us always. The Nazarite vow was a special vow, a calling; are we not all specially called in Christ?
Thanks again.
T.A.
Stop Foreclosure
/ January 27, 2010I am so happy I found your blog. The information on your blog needs to be discovered so I have added you to my Google News Reader. I really look forward to reading more posts from you. Keep up the good work!
In The Vine
/ March 4, 2010I am an alcoholic and can not have even one drink. AA helped me get sober, and I am thankful for that, but I quickly came to understand that “God” is all throughout the 12-step program. I decided to start attending a Baptist church and slowly but surely got my life straightened out and it has been almost 4 years since. I am now attending Bible college and have recently become the worship leader at my church – a miracle really.
Christians who drink are playing with fire. You may never get burned, but yet you might. It all depends on the person. Are you prone to alcoholism or are you a “normal” person who can drink half-a-beer and throw the rest away?
The only way to tell is to drink. The more you drink, the less fruit you will produce, that is clear to me.
Whatever you do, don’t cause your brother to stumble. You may not get burned but maybe someone else will. I would really like to know if the wine Jesus made at the Cana wedding was alcoholic wine or not. For me it all comes down to that. If so, I can’t understand why.
Tim A.
/ March 5, 2010Thanks so much for leaving your testimony with us. It is a blessing to know of some who have been delivered from alcoholic beverages.
I believe the Bible is clear on the matter of alcohol, and the child of God. Check out Proverbs 20 verse 1 and Proverbs 23 verses 29- 35. Also read Proverbs 31 verses 1-5 ff. In Proverbs 23 we are told, “Look not upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup…” Now wouldn’t Jesus be violating this decree by making alcoholic beverage for a wedding? It appears so to me. If not there is a large problem with Jesus.
I trust Jesus with the matter. The word was inspired by Him and it is true.
Thanks for your testimony and leaving it with us.
T.A.
Dixon
/ June 13, 2010That’s strange, T.A. I note from your picture you have short hair…thus you apparently ignore Num. 6:5, also part of the Nazarite vow, which calls for not cutting one’s hair. Why is that passage okay for you to ignore? Wouldn’t that passage be “reason enough,” as you call it, to avoid cutting one’s hair?
It seems like you are being really selective in picking and choosing the parts of the Nazarite vow you like as being important, while those that don’t comport with your lifestyle choices (i.e., short hair) are dismissed. Can you explain this obvious inconsistency in your perspective?
What about Num 6:6? Isn’t that “reason enough” for us to say it is bad to go to funerals and hospitals…places where dead bodies might be? Yet you strangely don’t advocate for that.
It seems like you find drinking alcohol personally distasteful and are, thus, twisting a few hand-picked Bible verses to back up your perspective, while totally ignoring other verses, particularly of the Nazarite vow.
While excessive drinking is clearly unwise, both in scripture and reality, that is a far cry from a scriptural edict requiring total abstinence. It simply isn’t there, try as some might to make it so.
Dixon
/ June 13, 2010John 2:8-11. When Jesus turns the water into wine, the founder of the feast notes that, typically, one would serve the best wine first, then lesser wines after people had already had a bit to drink, in practice…but that this wine Jesus has made is the best of the wines proffered at the wedding. Is it really your claim that this was just about the flavor of various grape juices?
Luke 7:33-34. Jesus clearly notes that he is wine drinker and that some will refer to him as a drunkard.
As I noted above…you are picking and choosing passages and interpretations to support your preconceived notion, rather than letting scripture speak for itself.
There simply is no scriptural prohibition on responsible drinking.
Tim A.
/ June 15, 2010Dixon, I thank you for coming and reading, however i sense a bit of anger, therefore it seems to be yourself who needs to prove what I have written is wrong. I have nothing further to add, except that I am not a nazarite.
Thanks again.
T.A.
Fan of Dixon
/ March 20, 2011T.A., I think you’re imagining Dixon’s “anger”, presumably because you won’t (or can’t) address his points directly. The Baptist prohibition against alcohol isn’t a time-honored tradition with centuries of textual support, it’s a latter-day (within the last century) change in dogmatic beliefs as a response to the (perceived) abuses of the old saloon system that dominated prior to Prohibition.
The idea that the wine of biblical times was really grape juice is farcical on its face. You are, essentially, presuming that the writers of the ancient texts were either lying or stupid and could not distinguish a fermented (wine) from an unfermented (grape juice) beverage. Ridiculous. There were numerous beneficial effects of the fermentation process above and beyond the inebriating effects – alcohol acts as a preservative against spoilage and, we are learning more each day, is very beneficial when consumed in moderate amounts.
There are numerous references, in the New Testament particularly, to the beneficial social and personal effects of drinking wine. Jesus himself drank wine and served it at meals, and converted impure water to pure wine. Thus, in your effort to validate a thoroughly modern and unsupported dogmatic point, Baptists like yourself reach backwards to the Old Testament for some fire and brimstone scripts you can use to support your otherwise unsupportable arguments.
Look, no one is asking you to drink or even to like the idea of drinking or others drinking. All we’re asking for is a little bit of consistency in how you choose to rationalize and defend your argument – because if you’re pursuing the scriptural approach, you are destined to fail.
Ray
/ June 27, 2011The problem with forbidding drink when Scripture does not forbid drink is that we create a standard for holiness that is extra-biblical. It gives people an external standard by which to measure their “godliness.’ Always dangerous to add to Scripture. Warnings are not prohibitions but are guides to keep us from danger. The danger is drunkenenss. The warning is a protector. But just as a warning sign on a highway is not a prohibition from using the highway, neither are warning signs concerning drink a prohibition. There are many benefits to using highways–even with all of the dangers that may be lurking. The Bible offers many benefits and blessings that are associated with drink. The warnings help us to enjoy the good gifts that God has given His people. We are always tempted to love the gift and forget the giver. So when a Christian drinks, he is to drink to remember the goodness of God in giving the fruit of the vine as a gift to His people.
Tim A.
/ June 30, 2011The fruit of the vine is the juice which the vine produces. It becomes corrupted any other way.
T.A.
Nancy
/ August 13, 2011I just found your “blog”, I have struggled with this for some time…. I was raised in a Southern Baptist Church the daughter of a deacon and all of my life was taught that if you are a Christian you should abstain from alcoholic beverages. While there is nothing in the Bible that clearly states this… my stance has always been that it is certainly a stumbling block for others and can lead to so many other things. If we as Christians keep letting our morals decline I am not sure where it will end up! The old “boiled frog syndrome”! I for one find it hard to see my christian friends out socializing and cannot do so without their margaritas and wine! Some may say I am being judgemental. As Christians if we are doing the same thing everyone else is how are we any different from the sinners? I just don’t feel I can be a Christian witness with a beer in my hand! Just my opionion and I appreciate so much finding this blog!
nb
Tim A.
/ August 13, 2011Nancy, You are right. Sober mindedness and other things are related to not drinking beverage alcohol; though the prohibition is not given.
Thank you for your comment.
T.A.
nICK yOUNG
/ September 20, 2011I know that that the abuse of alcohol has caused agreat deal of problems in this country. However, I don’t think that the Bible teaches total Abstenance. I know that both in the Ot and Nt there are Scriptual texts to the contrary. I have seen obese pastors preach about temperance and its not all glandular!! ( GLUNTENEY) !! hOW ABOUT THE MISUSE OF MONIES BY THE CHURCH AND WHAT ABOUT THE ABUSE OF OUR SEXUALITY. yET, WE DON”T PROHIBIT THE USE OF FOOD, MONEY AND OUR SEXUALITY, JUST, ITS ABUSE.
n.y.
Tim A.
/ September 21, 2011Nick, Thanks for reading and leaving your comment.
Those things are sinful as well. They are abuse. The thing about it is no one mishandles an automobile and kills someone because of gluttony, sex, or money abuse. Most of the time in these states people still have their senses about them, they are still sober, and sober minded. We are directed in and by Scripture to be “sober minded”, and we cannot be by drinking beverage alcohol.
Thanks again.
T.A.
Mark Brown
/ October 30, 2011Jesus is the foundation of the Christian faith. Jesus didn’t feel that He was being a bad example drinking wine as best I can tell. Who are we to condemn alcohol in the name of Christianity? Are we gods?
T. A. Blankenship
/ October 31, 2011Mark, Thanks for coming and reading at “All Things Baptist”. There is no evidence that Jesus ever drank alcoholic beverage wine. He was accused by those who hated Him of being a “wine bibber”, but they accused Him of blasphemy as well; so that blows that.
Jesus, the Son of God knows the writings of the Old Testament; it is the only Bible He had to read at that time.
It warns in Proverbs of the dangers of alcohol “Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise” (Proverbs 20:1); He also knew of the blessing on one family because the head of that family refused to drink wine; probably even the fruit of the vine; and God commended the Rechabites in Jeremiah 35.
Would the Son of God, Knowing the blessings of the Father, and knowing the Word of God, the inspired Proverbs, and all the warnings have really been a wine bibber and drank beverage alcohol?
There is also more to consider in Proverbs 31:1-6
He is the Christian faith. Without Him there would be no salvation. Everything rides on His own obedience to the Word of God. If He was not obedient in every word; He was not sinless, and then He would not be the Son of God or Savior and Lord.
Thanks again.
T.A.
Mark Brown
/ October 31, 2011The greek word in John 2:11 where Jesus turns water into wine is oinos. Same word is used in Ephesians 5:18, “do not get drunk on wine.” Lots of Old Testament verses you might be missing.
Ecclesiastes 9:7 Drink your wine with a merry heart
Psalms 104:14-15 God gives wine that makes glad the heart of men
Isiah 55:1 Come and buy wine and milk
Amos 9:14 Speaks of drinking wine from your own vineyard as a sign of God’s blessing.
I agree excess is a sin. So is excess of food but no one wants to go there….
I borrowed this last quote that I think sums it up.
” The attitude of Jesus toward wine, like that of the entire Bible, is neutral, praising its use and finding fault in its intemperate use.”
T. A. Blankenship
/ November 1, 2011Mark, What can you do with the scriptures I gave you. I enjoy and love the drinking of the fruit of the vine. I find the red quite satisfying.
However, I will stick with what the Proverbs says, and always remember there is no commendation to anyone for drinking alcoholic beverage; and there is for abstaining from it.
Thanks for your comments. However if you are trying to persuade me to change my heart and mind, I am even more persuaded today than at any time in my life beverage alcohol should be avoided. I desire to have a “sober” mind, and that is impossible with beverage alcohol.
T.A.
mightyservant
/ May 30, 2012I know this is an old Post, but its always a new topic of someone’s conversation and I needed the answer…wine, does it mean alcohol or grape juice. I’m just pressed to think that when Jesus turned water to wine, he wasn’t out having a drunken party with some of his buddies…he was drinking the best tasting grape juice you will never find again. In that day, the great amazing, refreshing drink was grape juice. But wouldn’t it morally conflict with the entire being of Jesus Christ, the perfect man that knows no evil…to be partaking in alcohol almost to tempt himself. That to me does not sound like something Jesus Christ would do. And furthermore, even if alcohol drink is not a “Thou shalt not…” commandment, wouldn’t it still be just as bad to be around the guilty pleasure (carnal pleasure)?And with that said, I leave you with the verse that stands out in my mind: “Ephesians 5:10-14…..11:and have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them….”
Tim A.
/ June 1, 2012That has much in agreement with my argument in the matter.
Thanks for your comment.
T.A.